Indulgences are not for the forgiveness of sin but rather for the forgiveness of punishment.
There are two kinds of sin: (1) A mortal sin is a grave sin that leads to eternal punishment and exclusion from eternal life. (2) All other sins require temporal punishment, and the purification happens either (a) here on earth, or (b) after death in Purgatory. The punishment is not conceived of as vengeance from God from outside of us, but more like the natural consequence of the nature of sin itself.
So there are Christians in three locations: on earth, in Purgatory, and in heaven. All of them are united to Christ, and there is a mutual exchange of all good things so that the holiness of one can profit the holiness of someone else. This collective spiritual good is called Christ's Treasury--all of Christ's infinite merits before God, plus Mary's prayers and good works, plus the prayers and good works of all the saints in heaven. By relying on Christ's Treasury the purification from punishment can happen more quickly and effectively.
Because of its authority under Christ, the Catholic Church believes that it may open and administer the benefits of Christ's Treasury to Christians under their jurisdiction in response to their prayers and good works.
The Catholic Church has no jurisdiction over Christians in Purgatory, but Christians on earth can help them by obtaining indulgences for them through intercession.
There are two kinds of indulgences: (1) plenary indulgences remit all of the temporal punishment; (2) partial indulgences remit part of it.
How do you get a plenary indulgence? You must:
* abandon all attachment to all kinds of sin * perform the work or say the prayer for which the indulgence is granted * participate in sacramental confession * participate in the Eucharist * pray for the intentions of the Pope
So what do you need to do to get a partial indulgence? At minimum you must be contrite in your heart and perform the work or say the prayer for which the indulgence is granted. It should also be said that the Church has clarified that people are not to seek indulgences merely to remit temporal punishment, but also as something that will spur them on to greater love.
When it's all said and done, the whole idea of indulgences comes down to the idea that Christians must undergo a process of temporal punishment before they are allowed to go to heaven. But Scripture doesn't teach that. Rather, the punishment process was completely absorbed for us by Christ on the cross. We may receive discipline from our Father, but we will never again receive any form of punishment. Scripture no where hints that those who are united to Christ are in two categories and locations: those undergoing purificatory punishment in Purgatory and those in their heavenly home. All who die in Christ go to be with the Lord. Thanks be to God who clothes us with his righteousness and took all of our punishment.
yeah, I saw that on theologica. It just really makes me sad. It seems that this is such a huge step backwards for the Catholic church, in which we have brothers and sisters who genuinely seek to know and follow and please Jesus. That and reinstating bishops who deny the holocaust. I'm burdened. And I hope this will spur us to pray for this branch of our family.
ok...first, a question for matt: what is the difference between receiving discipline and being punished? (i'm not being a wiseguy-- i just don't know the answer to this).
and to elaine-- i went to mass at the cathedral last sunday because a friend of mine from samford who's about to be confirmed in april keeps asking me to. despite my best efforts, i couldn't focus on much during mass other than (1) the rehabilitation of the bishops you mentioned (who are from the society of saint pius X, or SSPX- a troubling organization), and (2) the recent comeback (although as the article mentions, it's been going on for nearly a decade now) of indulgences. anyways, just thought i'd say i share in your concern for well-intentioned catholics everywhere.
disturbing article, the Catholic church always makes me wonder how much heresy is too much..
and b, i think the difference is that discipline is done in love to draw back God's children to Himself (God disciplines those He loves), and punishment from God is hell. although that isn't the kind of punishment indulgences are referring to, in that purgatory is supposed to cleanse from the natural consequences of sin, like matt said, not from God's wrath. I would say the natural consequences of sin is only a passive punishment from God, not His active punishment.
When I think of the difference between discipline and punishment I agree with John that discipline is within the context of relationship. Discipline seems bigger than the passive consequences of sin, although this may be part of it. For example, God may cause us to live in poverty to break us of our pride and self-sufficiency. This discipline is not really punishment but more of a prescription for healing.
When we choose to live by our self sufficiency (aka live in sin) we experience the natural consequences of not being in God's favor/presence. I feel that as Christians and even for non-christians on earth we do not receive the full weight of this consequence.
Hell is God removing his common grace from us so that we know the FULL consequence of choosing ourself over submitting to God.
Passive vs active sort of describes this except hell is God actively allowing us to feel the natural consequences of our sin.
I read this sermon by Edwards (Heaven is a world of Love) that talks of this removal of common grace and removal of our depravity. Heaven is unfiltered love, joy, friendship. All that we long for while hell will be the opposite. It's exciting and scary to think about.
Sorry to ramble. Indulgences are sad. I feel the catholic church is like a corporation and their bureaucracy has removed them from the reality of biblical theology.
well, we can talk about this further in a better forum than a blog probably...
but i still question how sovereignty can be reconciled with anything being truly passive. if God controls everything, he controls everything. his passivity is activity. it seems like the difference between the two is negligible, if a difference even exists. i have a lot more to say about this, but again...probably easier outside of the blog. and i really should be working, but... eh.
10 comments:
That's ridiculous...should we start writing another 95 theses?
A little too much FYI...
Indulgences are not for the forgiveness of sin but rather for the forgiveness of punishment.
There are two kinds of sin: (1) A mortal sin is a grave sin that leads to eternal punishment and exclusion from eternal life. (2) All other sins require temporal punishment, and the purification happens either (a) here on earth, or (b) after death in Purgatory. The punishment is not conceived of as vengeance from God from outside of us, but more like the natural consequence of the nature of sin itself.
So there are Christians in three locations: on earth, in Purgatory, and in heaven. All of them are united to Christ, and there is a mutual exchange of all good things so that the holiness of one can profit the holiness of someone else. This collective spiritual good is called Christ's Treasury--all of Christ's infinite merits before God, plus Mary's prayers and good works, plus the prayers and good works of all the saints in heaven. By relying on Christ's Treasury the purification from punishment can happen more quickly and effectively.
Because of its authority under Christ, the Catholic Church believes that it may open and administer the benefits of Christ's Treasury to Christians under their jurisdiction in response to their prayers and good works.
The Catholic Church has no jurisdiction over Christians in Purgatory, but Christians on earth can help them by obtaining indulgences for them through intercession.
There are two kinds of indulgences: (1) plenary indulgences remit all of the temporal punishment; (2) partial indulgences remit part of it.
How do you get a plenary indulgence? You must:
* abandon all attachment to all kinds of sin
* perform the work or say the prayer for which the indulgence is granted
* participate in sacramental confession
* participate in the Eucharist
* pray for the intentions of the Pope
So what do you need to do to get a partial indulgence? At minimum you must be contrite in your heart and perform the work or say the prayer for which the indulgence is granted.
It should also be said that the Church has clarified that people are not to seek indulgences merely to remit temporal punishment, but also as something that will spur them on to greater love.
When it's all said and done, the whole idea of indulgences comes down to the idea that Christians must undergo a process of temporal punishment before they are allowed to go to heaven. But Scripture doesn't teach that. Rather, the punishment process was completely absorbed for us by Christ on the cross. We may receive discipline from our Father, but we will never again receive any form of punishment. Scripture no where hints that those who are united to Christ are in two categories and locations: those undergoing purificatory punishment in Purgatory and those in their heavenly home. All who die in Christ go to be with the Lord. Thanks be to God who clothes us with his righteousness and took all of our punishment.
yeah, I saw that on theologica. It just really makes me sad. It seems that this is such a huge step backwards for the Catholic church, in which we have brothers and sisters who genuinely seek to know and follow and please Jesus. That and reinstating bishops who deny the holocaust. I'm burdened. And I hope this will spur us to pray for this branch of our family.
ok...first, a question for matt: what is the difference between receiving discipline and being punished? (i'm not being a wiseguy-- i just don't know the answer to this).
and to elaine-- i went to mass at the cathedral last sunday because a friend of mine from samford who's about to be confirmed in april keeps asking me to. despite my best efforts, i couldn't focus on much during mass other than (1) the rehabilitation of the bishops you mentioned (who are from the society of saint pius X, or SSPX- a troubling organization), and (2) the recent comeback (although as the article mentions, it's been going on for nearly a decade now) of indulgences. anyways, just thought i'd say i share in your concern for well-intentioned catholics everywhere.
disturbing article, the Catholic church always makes me wonder how much heresy is too much..
and b, i think the difference is that discipline is done in love to draw back God's children to Himself (God disciplines those He loves), and punishment from God is hell. although that isn't the kind of punishment indulgences are referring to, in that purgatory is supposed to cleanse from the natural consequences of sin, like matt said, not from God's wrath. I would say the natural consequences of sin is only a passive punishment from God, not His active punishment.
hmm, passive vs. active punishment. that opens up a whole new can of philosophical worms. but good answer.
Hmmmm,
When I think of the difference between discipline and punishment I agree with John that discipline is within the context of relationship. Discipline seems bigger than the passive consequences of sin, although this may be part of it. For example, God may cause us to live in poverty to break us of our pride and self-sufficiency. This discipline is not really punishment but more of a prescription for healing.
When we choose to live by our self sufficiency (aka live in sin) we experience the natural consequences of not being in God's favor/presence. I feel that as Christians and even for non-christians on earth we do not receive the full weight of this consequence.
Hell is God removing his common grace from us so that we know the FULL consequence of choosing ourself over submitting to God.
Passive vs active sort of describes this except hell is God actively allowing us to feel the natural consequences of our sin.
I read this sermon by Edwards (Heaven is a world of Love) that talks of this removal of common grace and removal of our depravity. Heaven is unfiltered love, joy, friendship. All that we long for while hell will be the opposite. It's exciting and scary to think about.
Sorry to ramble. Indulgences are sad. I feel the catholic church is like a corporation and their bureaucracy has removed them from the reality of biblical theology.
wow. i was going to respond, but i think the answers were more or less drawn out for me. nice.
well, we can talk about this further in a better forum than a blog probably...
but i still question how sovereignty can be reconciled with anything being truly passive. if God controls everything, he controls everything. his passivity is activity. it seems like the difference between the two is negligible, if a difference even exists. i have a lot more to say about this, but again...probably easier outside of the blog. and i really should be working, but... eh.
i'd like to give a little "whoo!" that my post resulted in such a hearty discussion. yay.
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